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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2006 23:14 
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I dont think the fuelling requirements of an n/a 1.8 would be a LOT more than a 1.6 - A bigger fuel pump and an adjustable FPR with the rail pressure bumped up a tad and the A/F ratio checked with a wideband it should be fine. S-AFC with a dyno tune should be sweet as!

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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2006 14:13 
well whats a normal A/F ratio?
then take into account a larger capacity 300cc and a few more RPMs

all be it, i dont know whats needed for the calculations myself, but surely 300cc more capacity cant be catered for on injectors that barely manage to accomadate for a slightly modded 1600

fuel pressure can only go up so high without blowing the rubber seals off the injectors...


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2006 14:43 
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HITAIL wrote:
well whats a normal A/F ratio?
then take into account a larger capacity 300cc and a few more RPMs
4G93s dont like to rev as much as 4G92s. The much longer stroke the 93 block has see's to that.

Also heres an example (Allbeit turbo engines)

4G61T Injector size: 390cc. Feeding a little 1600cc engine with equally little TD04 11b turbo in an engine that likes to rev.

4G93T Injector size: 390cc. OH MY GOD! Can this be true? These injectors are the same size as the 1600 4G61T. Surely its not possible to run an 1800cc Turbo engine with larger TD04 13g turbo on such feeble injectors let alone a modified one!

Bear in mind the thirst requirements go up when modifying a turbo engine at a much faster rate than a naturally asiprated one (with variable valve timing or not)

HITAIL wrote:
all be it, i dont know whats needed for the calculations myself, but surely 300cc more capacity cant be catered for on injectors that barely manage to accomadate for a slightly modded 1600


Wheres the proof for this? What duty cycles do 4G92 Mivec injectors run standard? What sort of airflow (in cfm) does the 4G92 take in at high rpm on comparison to a 4G93 with retro fitted mivec head? Ive only seen one person on this forum make such claims about the injectors size of the 4G92 MIVEC on this forum, and thats you :lol: What basis do you make this claim?

HITAIL wrote:
fuel pressure can only go up so high without blowing the rubber seals off the injectors...
True, but I didnt say "Cram 100psi into the fuel rail and you'll be sweet" I said bump it up a tad while checking the a/f ratio on a dyno.

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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2006 17:04 
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Wheres the proof for this? What duty cycles do 4G92 Mivec injectors run standard? What sort of airflow (in cfm) does the 4G92 take in at high rpm on comparison to a 4G93 with retro fitted mivec head? Ive only seen one person on this forum make such claims about the injectors size of the 4G92 MIVEC on this forum, and thats you What basis do you make this claim?


There have been plenty of posts on here about injector sizes and the fact that the gen1 injectors are quite small...im sure search could help you there :lol:

Quote:
4G93s dont like to rev as much as 4G92s. The much longer stroke the 93 block has see's to that.


Yeah, the 4g93 doesnt like to rev as much but he's saying it redlines at 8500rpm, or in other words higher than a factory 4g92.....

Quote:
4G93T Injector size: 390cc. OH MY GOD! Can this be true? These injectors are the same size as the 1600 4G61T. Surely its not possible to run an 1800cc Turbo engine with larger TD04 13g turbo on such feeble injectors let alone a modified one!


As for the 4g61 vs 4g93, the 4g93 injectors still have quite a bit in them dont they? ie, you can still get quite a bit more fuel out of them. The 4g61 was based off the 4g63 wasnt it? it shares similar parts and what not? so it could be said that it was over engineered in some ways to save cost of producing more parts?

Quote:
True, but I didnt say "Cram 100psi into the fuel rail and you'll be sweet" I said bump it up a tad while checking the a/f ratio on a dyno


Fair call :lol:


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2006 14:33 
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HITAIL wrote:

There have been plenty of posts on here about injector sizes and the fact that the gen1 injectors are quite small...im sure search could help you there :lol:


Guess what, of course I searched.. Yes there are plenty of posts re: injector sizing, 99% of which are based on assumption, and a bunch get flow rates wrong aswell. I saw 4G93T injectors labelled from 350cc to 390cc to 340cc. I still couldnt find any particular post where someone actually says that the stock injectors are at the peak of their duty cycle. If they were there would be heaps of related threads with people killing pistons from running too lean, simple breathing mods would be risky business if the stock injectors weren't up to the task. Might wanna rethink any intake and exhaust mods or you'll be paying for a rebuild :lol:

Had a datalogger on your 4G92? A wideband O2 sensor? Check out the fuel trim with those and you might be surprised...

HITAIL wrote:
Yeah, the 4g93 doesnt like to rev as much but he's saying it redlines at 8500rpm, or in other words higher than a factory 4g92.....


If hes upped the revlimit one would assume that the factory ECU has been tweaked with new fuel maps aswell, or running an aftermarket option. Either way his fuelling will be fine.

HITAIL wrote:

As for the 4g61 vs 4g93, the 4g93 injectors still have quite a bit in them dont they? ie, you can still get quite a bit more fuel out of them. The 4g61 was based off the 4g63 wasnt it? it shares similar parts and what not? so it could be said that it was over engineered in some ways to save cost of producing more parts?


The 4G61T is indeed similar to the 4G63T in the same ways the 4G92 and 4G93 share the same linage. But in order to save costs they wouldnt engineer 390cc injectors for the 1.6L alone if they were going to over engineer it. They would have just used the 450cc injectors from the 4G63T in the Galant VR-4. The 4G61T and 4G93T are completely un related engines and share very few parts (next to none in fact) The fact that the injectors have the same flow rate shows that mitsi were happy that 390cc while adequate to fuel the 1.6, were still adequate to fuel the 1.8.

Remember fuelling is crucial to a turbocharged engine, when a turbocharged engine is made to breathe more through turbo mods and exhaust/intake mods the amount of air in cfm being swallowed by the engine is increased at a far greater level than on a normally aspirated engine.

I know all the turbo guys are all upgrading injectors left right and centre and its 'cool' to say that youve done the same (WHOA Bigger injectors.. MUST be fast!) but you have to realise that modifying a naturally aspirated engine is different to a turbocharged one. Different areas need attention at different times.

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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2006 17:28 
right im getting pwnd here, but thats not the point :lol:


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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2006 00:08 
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-Jarred- wrote:
HITAIL wrote:

There have been plenty of posts on here about injector sizes and the fact that the gen1 injectors are quite small...im sure search could help you there :lol:


Guess what, of course I searched.. Yes there are plenty of posts re: injector sizing, 99% of which are based on assumption, and a bunch get flow rates wrong aswell. I saw 4G93T injectors labelled from 350cc to 390cc to 340cc. I still couldnt find any particular post where someone actually says that the stock injectors are at the peak of their duty cycle. If they were there would be heaps of related threads with people killing pistons from running too lean, simple breathing mods would be risky business if the stock injectors weren't up to the task. Might wanna rethink any intake and exhaust mods or you'll be paying for a rebuild :lol:

Had a datalogger on your 4G92? A wideband O2 sensor? Check out the fuel trim with those and you might be surprised...

I'm on the dyno this saturday with my Gen1 and I'll post up the info for you.


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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2006 17:46 
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yeah keen to see d dyno graph...

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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2006 22:42 
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Well the bad news is I didn't get a chance to log my dyno runs because of suspected eninge problems. But they're fixed up now. Good news is I'm at the drags tomorrow so I'll log some "real world" figures for you.

I was eyeballing the Injector Duty Cycle during the runs and it just nudged 80% @ 8000RPM. The injectors were serviced in May (suspected fouled injectors but they werent) so I would assume they're flowing at their specified flow rate.

EDIT: I created a new thread as it seems I may be hijacking this original one.


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2006 17:13 
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haha well it's alright since we're discuss abt da same topic here...
ermm this coming Nov 11th i'm goin Sepang for some drag competition action which my mechanics is participating..wait for my nice shots...

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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2006 17:16 
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Last week went to Pasir Gudang Saturday Nite Sprint for drag well i guess i play far too long till i cant engage my 1st gear...at first i thought it would be my clutch problem since it's hot...but it wasn't n my car was sent to workshop this morning...

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2006 20:39 
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So i swapped my gearbox with my mechanic n i add up a bit cash for d LSD gearbox...how's that sounds??
handling superb no skid at all when launching....
simply luv it...
:D

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2006 20:41 
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My mechanic had done his Satria Gti into a mivec turbo 1.8l boast 1.1bar
will post up some pics soon...
he's using microtech for his engine management...
he claim at least 450bhp
this is insane...

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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2006 16:09 
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Image
Well i just sprayed my mivec covers how does it look??
just nid some opinion here...
:lol:

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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2006 16:17 
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alex962 wrote:
Image
Well i just sprayed my mivec covers how does it look??
just nid some opinion here...
:lol:


it wil be mint if u hav sprayed blue the xtractor metal shield also ....... but then again u hav modified ur ride but looks rather standard though :roll:

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