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 Post subject: 63mm Throttle body
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 15:28 
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Having dyno'd the car before with RS headers and the exhaust made by Paul at ohlsens I have a baseline figure for mods.

I'm now installing one of Bart's 63mm throttles and will see what difference it makes. I will re-dyno the car after its all done and see what the gain is.

First off heres the side by side view (ok its not a good photo). But you can see the size difference, and the missing half of the center rod, all good for more flow.

Image

The stepper motors were swapped over so the ECU would still know where it was(and so i knew it was a working one). Though i think it winds if fully open everytime its starts, then puts it where it wants it.

In preperation i removed the hoses to the throttle and looped them together, so no water heats the throttle body. I had also removed the little flap inside which is heat controlled.

The problem so far was that with stock cams and ecu is any gap around the butterfly( even .1mm or so) means the idle is too high. The lowest it got was 2200rpm with the flap reinstalled in the closed position. This isn't a problem for JUN cam cars as they will need alot more air andfuel or cars with aftermarket ECU's that can be altered to suit the mods. But i want to have the factory ECU running the car without any extra electronics so Bartis going to fit a tigher butterfly.

The car was also very lean with isn't surprising given the huge increase of air that a 63mm gives. I took the car to 6000rpm and even the exhaust gas smelt lean, so i reinstalled the factory 60mm. Though it did sound good.

Next i found a post that Dave from RPW had made saying a 63mm required a FPR to work with the stock ECU. Though I had figured that by now, so i got a nice sard FPR from twstd at Driven performance and have today gone to get some fittings to hook it all up on a spare manifold.

Here the layout of the fpr on the manifold with the gauge installed and the side fittings done. Theres even a nice bolt hole for it and all. Though i'll drill a second one to hold it on the actual manifold in the car.
Image

I still have to get the old factory fpr ground off its mounting plate and braze the little hose barb to where the reg was. This is due to the cost of those alloy adaptors($50) and having to buy a hose fitting and a male to male adaptor which adds another $30+. Thats like $80, so thats not really worth it.

Once its finished i'll post up some more. But so fars it been easy, other than cutting a new gasket as they always stick to the throttlebody which is a crap job. Its and anyone can do it kind of job and doesn't require much skill, which is good. Though on the actual car checking for fuel leaks is a real must.

*EDIT results http://www.mivec.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4236&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=43 *

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MIVEC Data | Mitsi's > 96 GSR (stolen) | 97 Evo 4 (sold) | 96 Cyborg-RX (crashed) | 93 Cyborg-R (sold) | 3x Mirage 4WD (sold) | 98 MIVEC Race car (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: 63mm Throttle body
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 17:09 
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Rabbit wrote:
Though on the actual car checking for fuel leaks is a real must.


Yeah, i'll say.

I originally got some fuel hose from Enzed and was promised it would be fine, only to discover that it started to perish and leak only a few months later.

Now I have some awesome Goodyear hose (as used by Formula 1 teams).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 20:17 
why would you need a bigger butterfly gap at close with jun cams?....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 20:21 
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You don't need more gap they just don't respond as much as the stock cams do.

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MIVEC Data | Mitsi's > 96 GSR (stolen) | 97 Evo 4 (sold) | 96 Cyborg-RX (crashed) | 93 Cyborg-R (sold) | 3x Mirage 4WD (sold) | 98 MIVEC Race car (sold)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 22:15 
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Lumpy cams make very little vacuum at idle so to get enough air into the motor the throttle has to be open further. I'm always scared of it sticking open during a race so I leave a decent tolerance (too much for rabbits engine) Stock engines make lots of vacuum so needs a tighter seal or it will suck in too much air for idle.

i've done a few of these now and they work ok with stock ecu's, but you do need a a bit more fuel, esp as higher rpms . Stock ecu is not well mapped for the lower manifold pressure that the bigger throttle lets you operate in. This is one of those mods a basic piggyback fuel controllers is good for.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2007 22:40 
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Yeah my engine is really smooth down low(idles at around 600rpm), alot different from the old black one. I think it has different low cams from the pre 98 ones, either way from the amount of change in how fast the revs increased will be good for acceleration. Its quite a difference for only 3mm increase in diameter.

Also David at RPW said 42psi, so i'll be playing again soon.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2007 10:38 
where can i get me one ??? :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2007 13:03 
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PM Bart hes does them, he may still have an exchange gen2 one around. there is a topic with the cost on here.

Barts topic on costs
http://www.mivec.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3559

or basically
Bart wrote:
Basic 63mm throttle boring $250
Cut down shaft $10
New Shaft Seals $20
ISC heater Blanking Plate, 6mm alloy $40 (inc s/s screws)
Match port inlet manifold to throttle $60
Set of Stainless Cap Screws to suit (specify 1G or 2G) $5


For a road car with stock ECU you may not want the:
ISC blanked = no idle stepper motor so idle control from the stock ECU. This doesn't stop you pulling the heater hoses off to get rid ofsome of the intake heat.

Matched port manifold = this isn't currently an exchange item, so will mean your car is off the road till the manifold is done and returned. I may have a gen2 one that can be used as an exchange but currently all are out on loan or has the FPR being setup on it.

fittings so far are:
2x 1/8 NPT to -4AN
1x -4AN 150° push-on hose fitting
1x -4AN 45° push-on hose fitting
and pipe is stock return line x2.

And the an old reg cut up and will be brazed together to finish the piping.

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MIVEC Data | Mitsi's > 96 GSR (stolen) | 97 Evo 4 (sold) | 96 Cyborg-RX (crashed) | 93 Cyborg-R (sold) | 3x Mirage 4WD (sold) | 98 MIVEC Race car (sold)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2007 20:44 
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Pulled the injector loom and cranked the car to check for leaks...

Mother F**ker the welded reg leaks.

None of the new lines, alloy fittngs or guage leaked just the old welded up reg.

Oh well back again tomorrow to get it fixed. Or i may just drill another reg and use that :cry:

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MIVEC Data | Mitsi's > 96 GSR (stolen) | 97 Evo 4 (sold) | 96 Cyborg-RX (crashed) | 93 Cyborg-R (sold) | 3x Mirage 4WD (sold) | 98 MIVEC Race car (sold)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2007 07:22 
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If I'd done it :wink: I would have pressure tested it. Can't risk petrol leaks...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2007 08:39 
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Well thats why i took it to machnie part welding, they are ment to be good as all they do is weld.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2007 11:03 
i put my 63mm throttle body on lastnite runs sweet as aye cars not leaning out or anything, i just have to hold the revs at 1200rpm till the temp needle pops up above the 'C' other wise if i adjust the screw on the trottle body it revs to high when warm,

but happy with the results just needs a bloddy good tune up now :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2007 11:28 
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Anyone tried any larger throttle bodies like these?

Image

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... B:AAQ:US:1

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2007 11:57 
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Bad4GSR wrote:
i put my 63mm throttle body on lastnite runs sweet as aye cars not leaning out or anything, i just have to hold the revs at 1200rpm till the temp needle pops up above the 'C' other wise if i adjust the screw on the trottle body it revs to high when warm,

but happy with thee results just needs a bloddy good tune up now :lol:


I wonder if its because the TPS sensor needs to be recalibrated/adjusted. Seems like a strange thing to happen. The gen2s have the throttle closed switch built into the TPS sensor and you might need to check that the switch is actually closed when the throttle is shut (so the ecu knows it should be trying ti control idle). I would have checked this for you but didn't have the TPS sensor.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2007 12:02 
Bart wrote:
Bad4GSR wrote:
i put my 63mm throttle body on lastnite runs sweet as aye cars not leaning out or anything, i just have to hold the revs at 1200rpm till the temp needle pops up above the 'C' other wise if i adjust the screw on the trottle body it revs to high when warm,

but happy with thee results just needs a bloddy good tune up now :lol:


I wonder if its because the TPS sensor needs to be recalibrated/adjusted. Seems like a strange thing to happen. The gen2s have the throttle closed switch built into the TPS sensor and you might need to check that the switch is actually closed when the throttle is shut (so the ecu knows it should be trying ti control idle). I would have checked this for you but didn't have the TPS sensor.


Maybe we could have a play on saturday if i cant sort it by then, but i'd only need to losen the screws to move the sensor alog a bit till its close right?


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